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  #21  
Unread 04-15-2011, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

Tien did also smack away one of Buu's attacks. If I am not mistaken.
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  #22  
Unread 04-16-2011, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

Do not forget that I said that even Gohan was amazed by Tien's attack on Buu.

Now I must say something, we all know Tien trained continuously after Frieza and was known to have done so up until Buu. After which we have no proof he actually continued to train. It is sheer stupidity to assume that Tien never got stronger through any of that training. Hell, he even trained on King Kai's planet. No, he didn't reach the level of androids 18 and 17 but neither had Vegeta. So by the end of Z Tien would have at least reached Frieza's level. Tien spent more than 10 straight years (the actual number being around 11 or so) training. So to assume he hadn't increased in strength is ridiculous.

Yes, a sneak attack is cheap and usually shouldn't be taken as example but in this case it is indeed admissable as a feat. It's Buutenks (Gotenks absorbed) we're talking about. A Buu that even Gohan couldn't defeat. And yet Tien's attack managed to distract him. The fact that Tien's attack had any effect on Buu whatsoever is incredible. Buutenks is of such power that even someone that has been debated to be the strongest in the universe couldn't beat him. So Tien's attack becomes admitable information by creed of the fact that it distracted, for whatever reason it did, Buutenks. Furthermore Tien survived the kick Buutenks dealt to him in retaliation. So that means he is capable of taking a beating Frieza can't even dream of dishing out. Oh, forgot to add 10 years for the end of Z. So make that 21 or so straight years of training. We do not know how much stronger he got by those 10 extra years of training, but we do indeed know that training results in getting stronger.
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Unread 04-16-2011, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

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Do not forget that I said that even Gohan was amazed by Tien's attack on Buu.
Vegeta was amazed of Kid Gohan's attack on Frieza 3rd form. Shall I assumed that Kid Gohan can handle Fireza?

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Now I must say something, we all know Tien trained continuously after Frieza and was known to have done so up until Buu. After which we have no proof he actually continued to train. It is sheer stupidity to assume that Tien never got stronger through any of that training.
Expect that no one has never said anything about Tien not training. Of course Tien trains, just isn't on Frieza level. No Human, aside from Uub have ever reach Fireza's Level.

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No, he didn't reach the level of androids 18 and 17 but neither had Vegeta. So by the end of Z Tien would have at least reached Frieza's level.
Vegeta suprass 17 and 18 right after finishing his training in RoSaT. So what are you talking about?

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Tien spent more than 10 straight years (the actual number being around 11 or so) training. So to assume he hadn't increased in strength is ridiculous.
You keep saying that. No one is thinking that. Tien is stronger than he was in Sayian Arc, which his last recorded power Level was somewhere in the 1830. But to assumed Tien sky rocketed his power to 530,000 is just drivel. I hardly doubt Tien even reach that level, or any other human character.

Hilding down Cell isn't a feat., Just stalling him. Considering it didn't hurt him the slightest.
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Unread 04-16-2011, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

So tell me where it states that no human is anywhere close to Frieza's power? Where does it say in the manga? If nothing officially says that, then it is just speculation. Meaning you will have to argue your point of why Tien and the humans are not as strong as Frieza and offer up proof supporting. My proof rests in his ability to distract Buutenks. With the amount of time he had to train and the intensity with which he trains I argue that Tien could very well have reached Frieza level. And if not his Tri Beam attack far excedes his own power. It was what affected Buutenks. So it would be able to kill Frieza logically.

That bit about Tien not having reached the androids power level is that even though with all of that training Tien did not achieve android level power level. Neither did Vegeta with his training and his access to the Super Saiyan form. So what I am saying is with just a few years worth of intense training (via the room of spirit and time in which one day equals one year) Vegeta ascended his previous level of strength and overcame the androids. Tien's method of training was almost as intense as Vegeta's was. So after 21 years worth of that training, it can be assumed that Tien's power level changed drastically.
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  #25  
Unread 04-16-2011, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

I think if Tien was capable of Planet busting power, he would have done more damage to cell than pushing him down.

Vegeta's final flash is a planet buster, he just directed it in a way that was aiming for cell only.

so by that logic if Tien had that kind of power he would do more than push him down, he would do some serious damage akin to what Vegeta did.
It took all of his power just to push him.
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Unread 04-16-2011, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

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So tell me where it states that no human is anywhere close to Frieza's power?Where does it say in the manga? If nothing officially says that, then it is just speculation.
Basically what you are doing here as well? You are assuming that Tien sky rocket his power to to the level sof Frieza without any consent of evidences, other than stalling and delfecting some blast.

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My proof rests in his ability to distract Buutenks. With the amount of time he had to train and the intensity with which he trains I argue that Tien could very well have reached Frieza level. And if not his Tri Beam attack far excedes his own power.
Distracting? The only thing Tien did was deflecting a blast from him and get KO by Buu's Lower Half. How this sky rocket Tien's Power again?

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It was what affected Buutenks. So it would be able to kill Frieza logically.
Never happen in the Manga.

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That bit about Tien not having reached the androids power level is that even though with all of that training Tien did not achieve android level power level. Neither did Vegeta with his training and his access to the Super Saiyan form. So what I am saying is with just a few years worth of intense training (via the room of spirit and time in which one day equals one year) Vegeta ascended his previous level of strength and overcame the androids. Tien's method of training was almost as intense as Vegeta's was. So after 21 years worth of that training, it can be assumed that Tien's power level changed drastically.
Vegeta is a Saiyan and Tien is a Human. Saiyans are made for Battle in terms of these and can gain ermous amount of strength. Humans? Not so much, especially wha the series had shown, aside from Uub (The True Strongest Human). In fact, Tien neglects of going to the RoSaT to battle against Cell, stating it would be pointless.
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  #27  
Unread 04-16-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

The problem with your training theory Attou is that humans cant train as intense as saiyans.... Saiyans can train till they're near death and come back stronger, humans on the other hand if they trained till near death they wouldn't be able to train again for a long time and would come ou weaker.... So comparing human training to saiyan training is a bad point to be made.
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  #28  
Unread 04-16-2011, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

I fail to see where Tien has been proven to be weaker than Frieza at the end of Z. If no evidence exists of either then I move that the debat be stopped. As I can say it all day that Tien could be strong enough to defeat Frieza. Meanwhile y'all can sit there and say otherwise. The fact is that there is nothing proving either view point. I present situations that suggest Tien has gotten stronger. He can defelct Buutenks' ki blasts and survived being kicked by him. That suggests that Tien has indeed increased in strength. That is unless you're saying that a regular human can deflect those ki blasts and survive that kick. There is no evidence, at least none that has been brought forward, that suggests Tien is weaker than a Super Saiyan still.
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  #29  
Unread 04-16-2011, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

...your "evidence" is not better than ours:

you say we can assume that Tien kept training and has gotten some unknown quantity stronger.
we say that we can assume that Tien is not a planet buster.

but i'm willing to say even if he was a planet buster, he's not willing to go that far to kill frieza, while frieza would do it to him.

you are right though that it's pointless to go further if this is how it's going to be.

Thinking on it further, planet busting would be suicide for Tien anyways, since Frieza can survive in space and Tien can't.
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  #30  
Unread 04-16-2011, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Tien vs. Freeza.

Planet busting is not proof or even a good argumentative point. As stated before, Goku is not a planet buster by the sense that he does not destroy planets. So that argument is invalid. Meaning that the opposing side to my thoughts continues without proof of Tien's weakness. So my evidence remains a valid theory. The issue of the catagory planet buster is that it is inconsistant with how we judge what is or is not a planet buster. To prove that, we all know Cell is far stronger than Frieza. Cell is not a planet buster. He DID destroy King Kai's planet, but that planet was far smaller than even the moon. So Cell is not a planet buster. Does that mean Frieza is more dangerous? No. So the title of planet buster just means that whoever is catagorized as such has destroyed a planet. It is not a statement of power.

Plus, you must realize just how prideful Frieza is. He only used that attack once he believed there was an actual threat to his life before him. And furthermore, Tien wouldn't sit there and watch it happen. He would immediatly go after Frieza. As it has been demonstrated that he is a far more brutal and vicious fighter than Goku.
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