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Unread 04-29-2010, 09:39 PM
The Nazi The Nazi is offline
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Default Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chibi Kiriyama
Why do people here continue to think it’s too high? In 10 month’s training (barely the full year) Goku went from about 400 when he first arrived to a max of over 32,000 using the Kaio x4. Heck, Goku was around 85,000 when he fights Ginyu and through the Kaio-ken x10 (which he said he mastered) could have achieved a power close to a million. The point is not “OMG NO ZENKAI WAS LIKE THAT STRONG!" The point of the matter is what we see. You can’t overlook the basic fact that the Kaio-ken multiplies power by folds or that Goku (in a single zenkai with no Kaio-ken present) fought Freeza to a standstill. If the numbers get too high, throw away the mistranslation. I personally only agree with the Daizenshuu because my own estimates match it. One can say he was around 200 mil as a Super Saiyan, or one could say the Daizenshuu shot too far and go around 125 mil. But 12 million is way to low. Let’s look at what some are saying here.

Goku: 300,000
Goku (Kaio-ken times 10): 3,000,000
Goku (Kaio-ken times 20): 6,000,000

How does that make sense? We see nothing that denotes the Kaio-ken. Goku says it’s true power works in bursts; the elongated one he did for Ginyu was just to peacefully scare him off. So, if logic dictates it works in bursts, it can’t be constantly used in fighting without even an aura for the reader to see. That’s like saying Saiyans can be Super Saiyan without a hair/eye color change. Toriyama-sensei is a tad forgetful, but not thatforgetful. And, like I have said, Goku fought a completely onpar fight with Freeza without the aid of the Kaio-ken until the foot-to-hand battle (one were Goku drew blood from Freeza without an aura). And you’re forgetting a few very important quotes:

Freeza: “And I know you still have a great deal of power in reserve you’ve tried to hide from me...“Misunderstood, you garner this from the post- that Freeza was saying Goku had yet to use full power, which you see to be Kaio-ken times 20. But that’s faulty logic. Goku saw his 'full power' as being the Kaio-ken times 10.

Tenshinhan: “At his level of training, he should be able to multiply his power up to a factor of 10!“Ten sees Goku’s max without straining himself to be a factor of 10, and again reiterates that the Kaio-ken still multiplies by folds.

Kuririn: “I just hope Goku’s got some kind of plan! If this is as bad as it looks...“Piccolo: “He has none. Freeza’s power was greater than he or I ever imaginged.“Both Kuririn and Piccolo have observed that Goku’s reserve power that Freeza commented on (usage of the 10 fold Kaio-ken) was dwarfed by the sheer force of 50% Freeza. In fact, Piccolo had more to speak of on the matter beforehand.

Piccolo: “There was too great a discrepancy between their respective reserves...“This means that the aura Goku put up when he rushed 50% Freeza after the initial elbow was indeed his reserve power, the Kaio-ken times 10. It’s just that Freeza was so strong that even at Goku’s notion of 'full power' he still outclassed him. And just to stake the belief here...

Goku: “I...I could try a Kaio-ken increase to 20times...but I don’t know if my body can handle it...“Goku confirms through his hesitance that Piccolo and Kuririn were right. His threshold is the Kaio-ken times 10. The only reason he used the Kaio-ken times 20 was because he was desperate and did not forsee Freeza to be so erroneously strong that he would have to push himself so, not unlike how he took a risk in the fight with Vegeta by using a Kaio-ken he had never tried before at the cost of his personal well-being. In fact, it’s an exact mirror- Goku is completely drained after the Kaio-ken times 20 and as a price (just like his usage of the Kaio-ken times three, then 4) finds himself losing chi rapidly and temporarily unable to replicate the attack.

So the problem I see here is that most say his max was Kaio-ken times 20, which they see to validate Freeza’s “reserve power” remark when it was actually the Kaio-ken times 10 Goku had been keeping from him during the course of the previous battle.

Hand-to-foot battle = Kaio-ken aura, but definitely not Kaio-ken times 10
50% battle = definitely a Kaio-ken times 10 aura as confirmed by Kaio
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Unread 04-29-2010, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

i dont agree with you on everything but this is good info
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Unread 04-29-2010, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

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i dont agree with you on everything but this is good info
I didn't write up any of this, I'm just reposting it from MFG since it shut down.

But what don't you agree with?
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Unread 04-29-2010, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

only thing i disagree with you about is krillins power level i know that he is not as strong as a fully powered up super saiyan but he is still not weak same with tien and yamcha but i still respect your knowledge of DB/DBZ/DBGT
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Unread 04-29-2010, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

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Originally Posted by krillin View Post
only thing i disagree with you about is krillins power level i know that he is not as strong as a fully powered up super saiyan but he is still not weak same with tien and yamcha but i still respect your knowledge of DB/DBZ/DBGT
Where are they mentioned?

I don't feel the figure is high, it seemed right to me.
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Unread 04-29-2010, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

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Originally Posted by krillin View Post
only thing i disagree with you about is krillins power level i know that he is not as strong as a fully powered up super saiyan but he is still not weak same with tien and yamcha but i still respect your knowledge of DB/DBZ/DBGT
They're not mentioned in this.

And besides, the official level for Krillin during the Freeza fight is 75,000.
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Unread 04-29-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

Goku as a Ssj was 150,000,000. Divided it by 50, and Goku is at 3,000,000 at base.

Frieza at 100% is 120,000,000.
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Unread 09-08-2011, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

Don't pay attention to power levels much. They'll confuse you. Especially since there are no official power level listings after the Frieza Saga.
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Unread 10-15-2011, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

Could anyone tell me vegeta's power level before he died......in the frezia saga...


because after his death and ressurection I imagine he was at that point as strong as goku was at base....when he first confronted freiza...

sure he basically got one hell of a beating from frrezia but I'd like to know....

because his training in 450 x gravity inspired me seriously...
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Unread 10-16-2011, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: Why Freeza and Goku are in the hundred millions. [Part 2]

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Originally Posted by SBYRD5 View Post
Could anyone tell me vegeta's power level before he died......in the frezia saga...


because after his death and ressurection I imagine he was at that point as strong as goku was at base....when he first confronted freiza...

sure he basically got one hell of a beating from frrezia but I'd like to know....

because his training in 450 x gravity inspired me seriously...
He doesn't have a stated battle power, but it's most logically in the low- to mid-2mil range. He has to be weaker than 3mil Goku but stronger than 3rd Form Freeza.

Vegeta training in 450G was filler. The most we ever see him train in is 300G.
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