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Unread 06-14-2009, 05:24 AM
Quintessence Quintessence is offline
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Default Should we congregate people by their choice?

When i posted this on a philosophical forum, one user said, "By 'congregate' do you mean associate or categorize or what? Why should people congregate with those of the same beliefs? Surely we are better served by being exposed to alternate beliefs than cloistered within our own narrow ideologies in a realm of group think. I can't see one advantage to be derived from the narrow sort of 'congregation' you describe." and I do recognize the significance of that post. So, to accommodate that form of ideal, people should in general congregate themselves with what they and society believe. How they group themselves in society with belief and what others choose being their main incentive of what to look is up to their own discretion.
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In example, I would congregate people by their nationality if they are over the legal age of their country of origin than their race which they have no choice. They knowingly chose to stay or to leave their country; they did not choose their race. In the same way, religion should be fair game for it is a belief; therefore, the believer chooses it if they are genuine in what they believe -- though childhood indoctrination and the discoveries on how genes determine our way of thinking may make me reconsider. Someone's gender, however, is not what I would congregate people. In essence, there may be characteristics that are for people of a certain race or gender, but, for they do not wish for those qualities, should any fair and just society hold them accountable for them? This also includes the positive qualities that are a trademark seen by society for that race, gender, etc.

Last edited by Quintessence; 06-14-2009 at 05:29 AM.
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Unread 06-14-2009, 10:42 PM
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Good post Quintessence.

I think I left my hometown because the congregation was so similar in their race, nationality and creed. I found it too limiting not to meet people from other countries and backgrounds and beliefs.
However I didnt realise that this very subject causes so much discussion, frustration and fighting amongst individuals.
For example I was exposed to a much more diverse congregation of people than my brother and sister and mother. My Dad however through travelling with his work as a musician has also been more widely exposed to other cultures beliefs and is more open minded on these things. Now it is my Dad and I who have a lot more in common and understanding ,particularly on these subjects.
I can talk to the others about general subjects to do with things which relate to them and me but as far as talking about creed,culture, beliefs and alternative lifestyles its not really possible without arguments developing.

Its another reason why I think I wont go back to the village where I come from.
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Unread 06-23-2009, 08:15 PM
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Should we? No. Why, because they will congregate themselves.

Its called polarisation in sociology.

An Italian, for example, moves into a country with few Italians.

They become a focal point for visitors and friends and family.
That they act as an information point and support.
They may even provide a bed and somewhere to stay where others may be discriminatory towards them.
The next family moves into the same area, to have some solidarity and support. Soon specialised food shops open up in that area etc.
Thus more polarisation of race, with it now being even more attractive to new comers from that specific race.
Eventually an ethnic community builds up in certain areas.

You have all seen these areas. Its a natural process.

Then distribution begins when an area becomes saturated, and different pockets of ethnic groups pop up elsewhere.

Should this be enforced I think is the question, and I say no.
What would be the point would be my question.
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Unread 07-14-2009, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

I've been fortunate as to have lived all over the world. I am the son of a former U.S. soldier, and was born in what was West Germany due to his being stationed there. I also spent time living in England. I've lived in a number of states in different regions of the United States. Now I reside in Detroit, which makes visiting Canada to see my Canadian friends easy and inexpensive. Experiencing different cultures and their approach to different matters makes a person better. They become stronger of mind, are able to empathize with others, and have a better sense of self. While similarities may be comforting, experience can only be gained by diving into the unknown. Therefore, I must state that it is almost always better to mix with those different from oneself.
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Unread 07-16-2009, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

I originally wasn't going to study abroad, but I was in an awful work environment so I agreed to when a close friend asked me to join them. I think living abroad for an extended period of time is one of the most grounding things you can do for yourself. A vacation is a temporary morale boost / distraction. But a different culture is a good shock.

Choice is the enemy of satisfaction! The best things are best enjoyed without expectations, or even negative expectations. Its the whole "girl thinks a guy is a sleazeball so she spends time with him, finds out he isn't that much of a sleazeball which is an improvement so he's now a great guy" kinda thing.

Cool video about the psychology of happiness relative to choice: videos.howstuffworks.com_dan-gilbert-on-happiness-video

I already posted that I just watched a bunch of videos today instead of posting on this site! XD
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Unread 07-17-2009, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

The primary point of this thread is whether we should congregate people by their choice rather than by their natural predispositions. It is not that I want to end discrimination. I frankly don't mind it if it is made against a person's choice in life. It is just that I don't want the graphs, decisions, etc. of society being made on the basis of natural characteristics. A person's race, sexuality, gender, etc. would never have anything to do with the causation of being, per say, more academically inclined to success, but a person's choice in what they believe, what their political affiliation is, what they choose to eat, etc. could certainly be a basis of causation for more academic success. Shouldn't we, therefore, focus our attention to how a person conducts themselves in society as a means of making graphs, decisions, etc. rather than focusing on how they naturally look like?

Last edited by Quintessence; 07-17-2009 at 02:45 AM.
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Unread 07-25-2009, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

The problem is that how a person conduct himself in a society is defined by the society.The choices one makes come from the society and how that person is treated by her.For example if a person who has been forced to move to another country for various reasons, and live there, if it is not treated well-he cannot find a job and faces racism-then it is 90% sure that he will not love that country and as a result he won't do any good things at all.He will possibly end up stealing in order to live.And that's how people are congregated!
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Unread 08-05-2009, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

Not real sure I think it's a good idea. Being a New Yorker for like 30 years of my life, I look at that kind of system as one thing only- a ghetto. Yeah, it SEEMS like it's done by choice- common language, customs, and beliefs, but the fact is a lot of the time they are 'directed' there by economic, ethnic, or racial pressures. In a lot of ways, New York WAS the 'Great Melting Pot', and, certainly, if you walk into any Manhattan based Fortune 500 Company, you'll see diversity in action. But my objection still stands. The U.S. Supreme Court addressed just this sort of thing in hearing cases that used the term 'separate but equal' in it's language. 'Brown vs. the Board of Education(Topeka) overturned that kind of thinking. They saw that anything kept separate, was inherently unequal. So, by allowing ethnic or racial enclaves, we kind of put limits on the residents, and their ability to integrate and thrive in society. Like I said, not sure I think that's a good thing.
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Last edited by stahlie; 08-05-2009 at 01:22 PM.
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Unread 08-12-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

I understand what Stahlie is saying and especially where culture and habit makes it impossible to work or get work then its bad news. Also ghettos are renknowned for being crime infested and poverty traps and places where even the brightest struggle to get on in life. The poverty is often raw and unrelenting. during times of economic depression and high unemployment its a lot worse where poor people congregate.So even if people chose to congregate because of cultural similarities and poverty I dont think it will create a healthy environment.
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Unread 09-17-2009, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Should we congregate people by their choice?

I don't see what you are getting at OP, people gravitate into groups on their own, are yopu trying to say the government should FORCE people together ?

"by their choice, not natural dispositions"

What ? Last I checked making choices was natural, some people like to take control of their lives, some like to continue on the way the always have. This is not an area that any government could or should interfere with.
That's just inequality - no decision should be affected by ethnicity.

For the record i've travelled a lot in my time also, It's a shame that people segregrate themselves, a metropolitan culture is sublime.

Also the "I don't mind discriminination against peoples choices in life" quote... that's a dangerous point of view.

Same point of view that caused Sophie Lancaster to be murdered and countless other events of torture and hostility against people that are different... you tread on thin ice.
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